Emily Cohen Ibañez

Emily Cohen Ibañez (NYU Anthropology and Culture and Media PhD ’11) is a a Latinx filmmaker based in Oakland.  Her film work pairs lyricism with social activism, advocating for labor, environmental, and health justice. She has become known for her collaborative methods that challenge the colonial heritage of documentary filmmaking. With parents who migrated from Colombia to the United States and a family legacy of escaping violence from Aleppo, Syria, Emily knows what it means to cross borders and fashion new identities. Her documentary BODIES AT WAR/MINA (2015) premiered at El Festival de Cine de Bogotá and screened in 22 municipalities most affected by landmines in Colombia. Her short films reach wide audiences internationally through The Guardian, The Intercept, and Independent Lens. Emily is a recipient of awards from JustFilms Ford Foundation, Firelight Media Doc Lab, Sundance Kendeda, the National Science Foundation, and was a Fulbright scholar. Her feature documentary, FRUITS OF LABOR had its World Premiere at SXSW 2021, winning multiple awards on the festival circuit and had its US broadcast on PBS POV| American Documentary in October 2021.

Interviewer Melissa Lefkowitz is a filmmaker, doctoral candidate in cultural anthropology at NYU, and graduate of the Program in Culture & Media.

Melissa Lefkowitz: What brought you to the Culture and Media Program?  

Emily Cohen Ibañez: When I was an undergrad at UC Santa Cruz, I took one course in social documentation. This is the first doc I made – in 1999 – I made it about Santa Cruzans preparing for Y2K. And I loved it. I was so into it and I remember we edited analog using VHS tapes. I could just be in there for hours. So, I got the bug there, but I didn't understand what the pathway would be in film.  I didn't think that was a possibility for me. And I loved anthropology. I had wonderful advisors at UC Santa Cruz. Nancy Chen introduced me to medical anthropology and Pat Zavella did this crossover with Latino studies and anthropology. Then, I worked for three years in the nonprofit sector doing HIV/AIDS prevention work. But I knew I wanted to go into anthropology. And I also had this dream of how can I [do film]? I remembered that I really love film.

I saw the NYU program and I knew Faye [Ginsburg’s] work and was really inspired by that, and also Emily Martin’s – who was my main advisor – and was really inspired by her work. I had read [Martin’s] Flexible Bodies in Nancy Chen’s medical anthropology class. And there was a host of other people, [like] Rayna [Rapp]. I learned through my search and looking into anthropology programs that there was this Culture and Media option. I was like, “this is so cool.”  I thought it was something that I could do, learn more, and just see. And so I applied. It’s a hard program to get into, as you know, and I was really excited when I got in. It was my first choice. And I wanted to move to New York; that was always a dream to live in New York City. I ended up living in New York for 12 years and I love New York. As I got more into learning about production, I was discovering it was something I was really drawn to and I felt like I could have a knack for this.  

ML: Following the program, what drove you to the next phase of your career and how did you break into the field?  

ECI: It was a rough moment to graduate because we were still in the recession. I remember all the UCs [University of California campuses] for example, froze hiring. I had been questioning the academic track for myself, but I was applying to those jobs. That was sort of the expectation. I was lucky enough to get a postdoc. It was a two-year NSF professional grant that I decided to make into a postdoc. I was working on a film that never was finished called Virtual War. I made a film called Bodies at War during my time at Culture and Media. One of the things that the NSF [promoted] was the communication of science to broader publics, and so with that aspect I incorporated my camera work within the research design and dissemination so I could get funding to be able to do some of this stuff. I did that for two years and published on that project, got through production, and had a rough cut. I ended up abandoning it. Maybe one day I’ll go back!

That experience was very much me and the camera kind of thing. I knew down the road I eventually wanted to make films where I could bring on a team. After that, there was a lot of anxiety around how do I make a living? I understood documentary and DER within the educational sphere, and how that could happen in an academic context. But how one could live as a documentary filmmaker and that industry, I didn't actually have much contact with or understand that very well. I took a job as an Assistant Professor of Anthropology at LaGuardia Community College within the CUNY system. To be honest, I knew at that point I was going to do it temporarily and look for my transition out of academia.  

If you want to make that shift out of academia, whatever field, look at where people are gathering. I decided that I was trained as an anthropologist, I know how to learn different cultures, so I would just treat the film world like a culture that I’m going to learn to navigate, and that's literally what I did. It's funny because sometimes I have a fear of public speaking or have certain social anxiety, and putting on the cap of the anthropologist gives me a certain kind of courage. The first conference I went to was the National Association for Latino Independent Producers. Through networking and meeting people, I found out more. I became a very active member and for a while had a leadership position within a film collective called the Brown Girls Doc Mafia. That was crucial for me and where I made a lot of my connections. The team for Fruits of Labor, many people come from that film collective. With Brown Girls, I organized a retreat when I moved to Santa Cruz [because I] felt kind of isolated. We raised money to go to Sundance and also got festivals to give us passes. We'd have housing to make it affordable for us to go. Unfortunately, one thing that can be a challenge within the film world is that some of these festivals are enormously expensive. But it's important, I believe, if you're going to go the indie route of this industry – and I think in any industry – to network and figure out even how do people speak about their projects? What is the culture around this, you know? I mean literally making those observations and seeing how to insert yourself. And this is what I want to do, and this is how I can pitch this.  

It might seem more opaque than it really is. It's not. It’s really similar to anthropology except there's a different culture. It is going to the conferences and the festivals and meeting people. The way to do it is join film collectives. That's a great way to get your foot in the door and figure out how to affordably go to these festivals. Sundance can be really expensive, but there are other ones that really aren’t and can be really great. They’re like gems for filmmakers and you can make relationships. As you take the time to understand the field, as you would any ethnographic project when you’re trying to understand this “thing” – a phenomenon or system – you start understanding the landscape and talking to people and making leads.  

“Having that training in anthropology is one of those things, among other things, that contribute to how you come into your own and your voice.”

—Emily Cohen Ibañez

ML: Could you describe the process of establishing yourself, including any challenges?  

ECI:  The challenge that you will have always as a documentary filmmaker, especially if you're an independent [filmmaker] and I would say narrative as well, is funding. Yes, you can do things on a lower budget if you're pushing the boundary of the field some way and you have a great story, but generally it's good to have a certain level of production value because this is an industry. And the idea is to reach wide audiences, right? There are different routes to go. You also have to figure out what is it that you want. Maybe you're like, “I'm really avant-garde, I don't care about audiences. This is about my art practice and I'll find another job to get the food on the table.” And that’s awesome. That's a route. For me, I do want to make a living. I don't have the independent wealth that would allow me to not care and I actually want to reach wide audiences. So, because of that I am working in collaboration with teams, and being a part of fellowships and this industry. That requires networking.  

The challenges can be in the beginning when you don't have all the networks. I tell people from the film collective whether they're coming out of film school or not, relationships take time. There's going to be a lot of rejection. That's the name of the game of this industry. But with time people get to know you and your work, or what you're trying to do, and eventually you'll get an in. Then it kind of grows from there. So those relationships take time and it does take a bit of persistence and patience. The cool thing about coming out of a doctoral program like NYU is most of you there are pretty ambitious people and committed, and that will take you far.

Honestly, sometimes you have to make shitty work before you make good stuff. I think it’s really important for folks to care about the craft. Honing your craft is continual. I find it exciting. I love that. For me, I know that I'm in the right field, because at the end of the day, why am I not going to explore the medium to its fullest and be excited about what other people are doing? It's exciting for me when I see incredible films and I'm just like wow. I get really excited and talk to people who are involved in making it. I think it’s that idea of finding excitement in whatever it is that you want to do, and then thinking about how can I always hone that craft and be in tune with what the conversations are?  

What’s cool about folks coming from the Culture and Media program, what you might not realize, is that you have historical knowledge. A lot of folks don't have an analytic base to look at filmmaking from your own perspective as an anthropologist. Definitely [have] humility – there’s a lot you don’t know! There are limits to our knowledge and we're always learning. But on the other hand, you do have things to bring to the table. And it can be a challenge recognizing that in the beginning. As people get to know you, know your work, that's how you establish yourself. 

Also, within the industry, it's [important] to keep in mind that there are so many sectors within it. There are people who work in television and in the networks and that's a whole other thing. And then there are people like me that are the indie people, [which] in some ways is not so different from [having] certain skills you've learned in anthropology, like grant writing and fellowships. And then there’s Hollywood and those intersect. You can move across those sectors. People come up in different ways. I inserted myself as a director from the get-go. But I know extremely talented directors who started as a PA [production assistant] and moved up all the ranks and that brings its own value. There are so many ways to establish yourself in the field.  

ML: Are there specific elements of the Culture and Media program that you have applied to your career?

ECI:  Absolutely! Learning about [Jean Rouch’s] shared anthropology, the ethics. It’s almost a newer discussion within the documentary field. We're talking about whose story, whose right is it to help tell whose story, questions around authorship, really great conversations. But, I feel like anthropology has contended with its colonial history, at least since the ‘60s and that is something that anthropology should pride itself on. It’s just a part of the way I work. I’m constantly thinking about power relationships and my social position. And who owns the means of production, and what does that mean, and what are the effects? I think about [Marcel Mauss’s] The Gift. I was asked to write a script and I re-read The Gift. It's not necessarily a practice of analysis of citations but it's always inspiring me. My dog's name is Bateson after Gregory Bateson! I loved reading Gregory Bateson and Emily Martin was such an influence for me to really think about Bateson’s work. His meta-dialogues with his daughter in Steps to an Ecology of Mind-  I read those again and remember loving those. I did this eight-minute commissioned animated short – I was working with a woman and her son who had lived a year of being unhoused in San Francisco. The mom had dealt with sexual violence and domestic abuse that led them on that route. And I was like,
“Oh my God, the dialogues!” I was thinking about a six-year-old boy and the conversation with his mom and how that might go. [Bateson] was hugely influential in this, in thinking of how the mother and son I was working with come to this concept of “home” and their own ideas around love. When you watch that short, you might not even realize that, but for me, it’s part of who I am and a part of my voice, and what I'm doing. So yeah, I'm always going back.

“If you want to make that shift out of academia, look at where people are gathering.”

—Emily Cohen Ibañez

ML: What are your most meaningful career moments thus far and what motivates you?   

ECI: I’m very driven in the process. One of the things I learned about myself is institutional life isn't necessarily where I grow the most. I have my own company and I’m really dedicated to bringing about a work culture that I feel is collaborative, positive, and creative. If you can establish yourself enough and find your niches and how to do it economically, which I finally have gotten to, you can choose your collaborators and make a strong team. I love that aspect, and there is a business aspect to it. I've chosen to do more women-centered stories. That was a shift in my career that was really important to me. My team is predominantly women and I work with men too. For my generation of filmmakers, there was a shift. Before, it was much harder. You were generally in very male environments and now women are much more valued, as well as folks of color within the industry. People with disabilities, for example, are gaining more ground right now, so there have been some shifts. For me that was really important to have that certain level of autonomy to make certain decisions and create something in the way that felt right and meaningful to me.  

For example, with Fruits of Labor, my collaboration with Ashley who is the protagonist of that film – those are things I learned from learning about Rouch, you know?! I’m doing anthropology in a way that I want to do it. Not that it's not hard, it's a ton of work. I’m planning a ten-day closing down of shop at the end of the month, because I need a break. The challenge is, when you're freelance, you can just keep going. I'm learning constantly how to set certain boundaries, so that I get rest. That’s really important. In film, I'm really looking for meaning. There are a lot of ways to make your living. This is a choice that isn't necessarily the easiest route, though I don't know if any route is. For me, it's important that I’m constantly checking, “Why am I doing this?” to motivate me. You're not always going to get accolades. All those things are external, so I’m always looking at my North Star and what is it that I want to do with my work and what do I really value and care about.

ML: What advice would you give Culture and Media students hoping to pursue a career outside of academia?  

ECI: I remember as a student feeling like, this is what I was trained to do - research, academia -  I didn’t know anything else. Especially if you've entered at a very young age, or you haven't done other things outside of academia, it might really feel that way and, yes, making a shift can be difficult. There will be moments of difficulty or not getting your footing right away, but you have a basis. Maybe you're going seven to ten years doing this graduate program. That's ten years of life, it's significant. But you've got a lot more to live! [Laughs] And people change careers, and shifting in your career isn't a total change. You don't have to erase everything that you've done before. It will only add and bring uniqueness to your voice.   

In the creative fields like film, what people are interested in, especially in the indie sector, is our unique voices. They want something fresh. And that's what you can offer. There are things that you can push within form, definitely. We're always doing that or thinking about that. But ultimately, the thing that really is going to set your work apart or make people excited is what you bring to the table as a person. Having that training in anthropology is one of those things, among other things, that contribute to how you come into your own and your voice. Honestly, I don't feel like I totally came into my voice, maybe until Fruits of Labor. But all that research I’ve done and all that reading and thinking and experiences, it totally informs what I do now. I do short commission works for The Intercept frequently and my fieldwork abilities are fruitful, they contribute. I might not have been trained as an investigative journalist, but the way I do my research and bring a story forward is really appreciated, and I’m constantly getting more and more work from them, you know what I mean? I rely on all those experiences.   

I think sometimes there's a focus when you're doing a doctoral program to think about professionalization and like, “Where am I going next?” This is a moment in your life, and I wouldn't abandon what you're actually learning. Because that's profound. You can carry that with you. What you actually learn, how you develop intellectually and as an individual, and your work in the field, that will carry you through. Don't forget the richness of what you're doing in this present moment because it's hugely important to how you develop in your work and in your thinking. Professionalism is important but think of this amazing opportunity. You're going through a field project where you have a whole committee of people providing advisement. If you make your missteps or you have your anxieties, it’s okay. It’s huge, it’s a beautiful thing. I would hold on to that and just know that while it takes work to shift your career in a different direction, it's completely possible and people do it all the time.  

ML: What can we look forward to in the future?   

ECI: Fruits of Labor just had its PBS premiere on POV October 4 and it is still streaming on the PBS app. The film has educational distribution so, please, at the different universities, if you see the film and love it, let people know. I have an educational distributor, they’re called Grasshopper Films; they are reputable and wonderful. Libraries can purchase the film that way and [you] can then show it publicly whenever and in your classrooms. I just signed on with an international distributor, so if you're interested in how the film might travel internationally, follow! We have a web page and Instagram and Twitter. In terms of other things, I just released a film with The Intercept called Precarity. I'm super proud of that piece, so please check it out. It looks at women during the pandemic, women essential workers. It follows three women. One is a farm worker with four children and she picks in the raspberry fields. Another is a schoolteacher here in Oakland, and the third woman is an app driver in San Francisco. It's a 10-minute short film. The cool thing about The Intercept is it's freely available online. There are a few more shorts that are going to be coming out soon. I have a website. I'm starting to dabble in fiction and we'll see how that goes. I'm really enjoying it, so there's another pivot! [Laughs] But I still want to do doc, so my ideal would be maybe to be able to bridge between doc and fiction and go back and forth.

This conversation was edited for length.